“This reminds me of Plato’s ideas about women in the Republic,” said Norm.

“How surprising,” quipped Ira wryly, “Norm brings it back to the Republic.”

“Everything goes back to the Republic. Don’t shoot the messenger,” Norm retorted, “I mean, Plato made women equal in his Republic 2500 years ago. But he did it to show how ridiculous it is to try to force equality on society. Idealism may be desirable, but forcing idealism creates some undesirable effects. I mean, in order to create his ideal society, Plato takes children away from their parents, to be raised by others.”

“Sounds a lot like a national childcare system,” Angela interjected. “I couldn’t imagine someone taking my kids away from me, as Plato proposes.”

“A national childcare system is not the same as taking children away from their parents,” says an exasperated-sounding Anne. “Children who go to daycare still know and live with their parents, whereas in the Republic children are held in common and don’t even know who their parents are. There’s a huge difference.”

“I find it concerning, though,” says Norm, “that our society seems to be moving closer and closer to Plato’s ideal in the Republic. I mean, first there was only grade school where kids were taken away from their parents for a portion of the day. Then the number of grades expanded. Now we are offering day-long kindergarten, pre-school and soon, national childcare. The state keeps getting more and more involved with people’s children, earlier and earlier in life. Government policies, whether intentional or not, are creating the conditions where the state has to look after children. This is part of the problem with the idea that we can force equality on society.”

“Yeah,” says Earl, jumping in, “If women are 50% of cabinet, 50% of CEOs, and 50% of other occupations where it is hard to raise kids, who’s looking after the children?”

“Oh my god, that’s so sexist!” cries Anne, as Earl sheepishly slumps in his seat. “This is the problem with these outdated attitudes. Why should women be the ones expected to look after the kids? Why can’t men look after children? This is why it’s important for the Prime Minister to enforce a 50% quota on women in cabinet. Otherwise, men will just continue to expect that women will stay home to look after the kids. It’s 2015 folks!”

“But I think this is the whole crux of the matter, and what Plato was getting at,” says Norm. “Can we just wish our way to the society we want? Is the only thing holding us back from having a just society our willingness to enforce it? Or is it more problematic? Is it unnatural for the world to be a certain way, like it or not? Women are biologically more suited for giving birth to and raising children, if not more suited psychologically as well.”

“Uh, oh,” says Earl, smiling.

Norm: “This is what Plato is trying to teach us. Despite our wishes that the world be more just, more fair, less violent, there are certain things in our natures that prevent it from being so, including our biological urge to favour our own children. He is showing that the family is what gets in the way of a more just society. Plato is pointing out that unless we’re willing to do away with the family, to do away with private property, we aren’t going to be able to do away with injustice in the world. He is saying: unless we’re willing to do away with parents raising their own children, women are never going to be equal. This is what Trudeau and the so-called ‘progressives’ are blind to: they are blind to the idea that we are slowly crowding out the family, crowding out private property, crowding out the notion of rewarding hard work. It’s not that Trudeau is wrong to want 50% women on cabinet, or even to appoint 50% women to cabinet. The problem is the expectation that Trudeau is raising. The problem is the idea that the only thing standing in the way of equality between the sexes, or of eliminating poverty, or of stopping climate change is a little will on the part of government to change some law or policy. It is hubris. Just as each metal has certain properties that suit it for particular uses, but limit it for others, so humans also have certain properties that suit them for particular social organizations, but limit their success in others.”

Anne: “I disagree. I think Plato is serious here. He’s pointing out that women are equal or, at least, are capable of doing the same things as men, such as governing. The only thing standing in the way is our preconceived notion of what the proper roles of men and women are. If the best government is the one in which women play an equal part, then the just society has to try to find ways of freeing up women from the roles that have traditionally held them back. I think Plato would see national childcare as an elegant solution to the problem of women’s participation in society. This is his vision realized. Yes, he knew that to aim for perfection could lead to injustice, such as taking children away from their parents altogether, but to take steps towards the ideal is exactly what Plato had in mind. I mean, look at what he has to say about philosopher-kings. He says that in order to have a just society then either philosophers will have to become kings or kings philosophers. Was he only saying that to warn us of the dangers of having smart people in politics? It may not be the nature of the masses to elect smart people and, therefore, we may have to settle for less, but if we could have only the smartest people governing us, that would be awesome.”

 

‘The poor will always be with you,’ as Plato’s protege Jesus later said.’”

Anne: “I don’t think that’s what he was saying, at all.

 

“And it’s not just women. I mean, human beings have different capacities. This is why Jesus says, “The poor will always be with you.” You can try to educate people to give them a hand up in the world, but some are always going to be more successful, while others less so. We can do our best to mitigate these realities, such as providing welfare and minimum wages, but to expect to eradicate poverty is as utopian as imagining that as many men are going to be stay-at-home parents as are women.”

“So

Just as Prime Minister Trudeau has done with his cabinet today. But we can raise the same question today as Plato raised then: can we simply dictate equality? Should we?